Family disintegration

"Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing." (granfury) 11/13/2019 at 22:01 • Filed to: None

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(sorry - long rambling to follow)

I just read a very sad letter from my sister to our mother that basically she does not want to be in contact with her for the fore seeable future and to not contact her. And in reading it, I am more sad for my sister than our mother. It wasn’t stated in that letter, and it doesn’t need to be, but I assume that I am also persona non grata. I’ve sent cards and letters to her, but never receive a response. Even when I went in for surgery and treatment for cancer, with the outcome a complete mystery since it was unknown for some time if the malignancy had spread, I heard absolutely nothing from her.

Yes, we had a horrible childhood (mine probably worse than hers due to the physical abuse I suffered ) , and yes, our mother was a terrible, terrible person back then; for example, m y sister would do something wrong and yet I’d get the beating. It was evident to me even at a very young age that s he never wanted to be a mother and she shouldn’t have been to be brutally honest, and the loss of her husband, our father, at such a young age just further complicated an already bad situation. The mental cruelty that she displayed was simply unjustifiable, although once again, as first born (and the reason they had to drop out of school and get married) I probably suffered through more of that than my sister did . My mother is the reason that I am staunchly pro-choice and honestly believe that I should have been aborted, giving her and my father a chance to grow up, separately, and find suitable spouses before starting families, if they even wanted them .

But thanks to age and modern chemistry, mom has gotten better and has apologized for her errors and unacceptable treatment of us . I have forgiven her, and basically use her as a model of how not to act, even if it means missing out on some important experiences in life . Sure, my life isn’t “ normal” by any stretch of the imagination (but certainly not weird or deviant) , but I live with a quiet dignity and optimism that belies my upbringing. I don’t have a wife, any kids (to the best of my knowledge) , a mortgage, a soul-crushing job, a boring sedan or SUV, or any of the other things that are considered normal for the average American of my age.

My long-term relationships haven’t been the best, probably due to a lack of suitable role models, and whenever I’m in one I always feel awkward and out of my element, but I wouldn’t be surprised if most people, even in healthy relationshi ps, felt that way. I try, I fail, I move on, and if that means being by myself for an extended period of time so be it. I’ve had enough bad relationships to know that I’d rather be alone than together with the wrong person for the wrong reasons, wasting her time and mine.

In that letter my sister kept mentioning things about how she missed out on what she thought her childhood should have been. I don’t know how much sympathy I should have as I feel that longing for some idyllic life is just going to lead to disappointment, and that you need to react appropriately to the situation that you find yourself in rather than living in the past and bemoaning the fact that things didn’t happen as you wanted them to. It’s just like in meetings at work. I simply refuse to spend hours bickering about who did what wrong and assigning blame. The bad thing happened - that is a given . Right now we need to learn from that experience and do everything within our power to make sure that it doesn’t happen again. Same thing goes with relationships. Sure, things go bad, sometimes horribly so, but at some point, especially after honest, heartfelt apologies are made, you have to move on and forge a new dynamic instead of hanging on to the past, especially when the things that happened in the past are not still happening now.

My sister has two kids, and they are our folk’s only grandchildren. I am saddened that mom and dad don’t get to experience the joy that one should get by being grandparents , spoiling the kids rotten despite their parent’s wishes and things like that . But my sister and I were isolated from our paternal grandparents, and it’s like she’s repeating the same behavior, and I just think that nobody wins in that situation. I wish I could have spent more time with those grandparents, but that’s history. At least I did have one pair that I was close to and that provided many a happy time during what was otherwise a fear-laden, tumultuous existence. My parents have basically been treated as servants during visits with my sister ; babysitting when the grandkids were young, chefs during holidays, all the while my sister was bottled-up and not talking to anyone, avoiding contact.

We never really wanted for much growing up, and yet were kept grounded. There was never a worry about food on the table or a roof over our heads. Especially in later childhood years we were doing fine, materially-speaking, with a nice house in the suburbs, charge accounts at Nordstrom, and reliable transportation. But e motional support was lacking, and the money could never make up for that; I remember asking for, and getting, a big chemistry set for Christmas one year. I didn’t want it because it was a chemistry set - I wanted it because I wanted it to be something that my mother and I could do together since we’re both interested in science , but of course she never had a clue. Our parents had their lives and my sister and I more-or-less raised ourselves, and I knew that this was not normal.

Sometimes I wonder if my sister is inadvertently doing exactly what our mother did to us. Her kids always have the newest iPhone, my niece has seen Hamilton in at least 10 different cities, and my nephew’s first car was a brand-new BMW X2. She has multiple degrees, a fancy 7-figure house, a new BMW or Mercedes every few years, a husband with a huge income and a ranch where they keep their horses, y et she’s miserable and stuck on the past . Conventional wisdom says that I should be the unhappy one - trade-school education (but lots of college credits in multiple majors ...) , still renting, still single, still driving a cheap 7-year old minivan. I understand that my childhood was the stuff of nightmares, yet I get up every day , go to a job I love helping the less fortunate, getting there in a car that I really like , come home to a pleasant house and relax .

Sure, there are times that I wish I had a girlfriend, and it would be nice if I could have pets as I’d like to have a cat. But I refuse to spend my life obsessing on ‘what ifs’ and constantly worrying about the future. Pardon the platitudes , but w ith the right attitude things just have a habit of working out for me , and I view the setbacks that I encounter as just temporary. This has been my attitude for some time now and didn’t change with my cancer situation this year, and it seems to be working for me. I just hope my sister can find a similar level of happiness and contentment. Adopting and changing religions, jumping on every yuppie diet fad (keto, Atkins, paleo, gluten-free, vegan, vegetarian, etc. and forcing her family into joining her in them) , joining social and charity organizations - none seem to give her the peace that she’s looking for. I hope she finds it before it’s too late, giving her even more to regret, but that’s something she must do for herself. There are several of us that that want to help but we are being shut out, and we must wait for her to figure this out on her own.

Chariotoflove > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 11/13/2019 at 23:57

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I am so sor ry to hear of the pain your family is still suffering after all this time. I am also glad that you are with us and weren’t killed before you had a chance to be, just as I am so very glad that the woman who birthed my daughter made the choice to give her life so that I could adopt her. What I wish most for young people in your parents’s situation is the support and compassion they need to not turn a moment of poor judgement into a lifetime of difficulty .

atfsgeoff > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 11/13/2019 at 23:57

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Money cannot buy happiness; it just shifts unhappiness to a different aspect of your life. Happiness requires personal reflection on one’s purpose in life, whether you live out of a single-wide, the back of a van, or a mansion.

Dwelling on the past solves nothing; learn from your experiences and mistakes and move on. I guess your sister is still dwelling.

wafflesnfalafel > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 11/13/2019 at 23:57

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sometimes there is significant value in simple separation

Chuckles > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 11/13/2019 at 23:58

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I would think that a letter like that would not be written without a lot of serious thought and hopefully some sessions with a therapist. Maybe this is what your sister needs to do in order to move on with her life. I’m glad that you were able to make peace with the past, but she might be struggling to do that. And if your sister feels that her childhood was terrible and horrible like you said it was , I can’t say that I blame her for not wanting her children to spend time with their grandparents. But it sounds like your sister has some things to work on, and she might have more success doing that from a distance. 

jminer > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 11/14/2019 at 00:09

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To share a bit of perspective from the other side possibly. My wife grew up the oldest of 5 girls with abusive parents and we have cut all contact off from her family as well. It’s extremely painful for her to deal with what feels like willful ignorance from her parents that beat her into the hospital many times or the relatives that ignored it as ‘strong parenting’.

I’m not saying  it’s the same as your situation but there are times where the reminders of pain cause far too much damage to attempt to maintain contact of which you'll never get anything out of.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > jminer 11/14/2019 at 00:27

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Was there any expression of remorse or apologies from her parents? Or do they maintain a facade that there was nothing wrong with their actions? My mother has apologized for her behavior and is a different person now, but that doesn’t seem to have any effect on my sister. I can understand the need for separation, but I fear that it may be permanent if she can’t work out her issues with the past and move on instead of living in the past as she seems to be doing now.

Our parents are in their mid-70s, and they probably have 10-15 years left at best. I would hate to see them shunned for the rest of their lives for behavior from 45 years ago that our mother admits was wrong and has apologized for. Life is just too short to hold grudges.

Honeybunchesofgoats > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 11/14/2019 at 00:48

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Everything you’re feeling is fair. To share my own perspective, I had a shitty dad— who was less shitty than most—my reaction to that was to get an Ivy League degree and cut him out of my life, different strokes.

I’m sorry she hasn’t been there for you, because that sucks. From first hand experience, that kind of thing can make you very cold, overly so, but people deal with issues in different ways. 

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Honeybunchesofgoats 11/14/2019 at 01:04

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It could make me cold, but it didn’t. If anything, I should be the more angry of the two of us, but I’m not. I truly feel sorry for her and hope she gets her life in order; I did, mom did and she can, and if this is what it takes I guess we’ll have to go along for the ride . A s the survivors of this rotten childhood we should be able to commiserate and help each other, but that will only happen if she wants it.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 11/14/2019 at 01:07

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I am 100% team sister here. No one is owed forgiveness. People who cut awful people out of their lives should be applauded. Too much emphasis on forcing families to work it out, even after everyone’s lives are ruined. Seems dismissive to say that because she chooses not to forgive your mother, she’s “stuck in the past.” Also your belief that you got it worse... I mean this isn't a contest, man.

It’s tough you’re caught in the crossfire, but it makes sense.

subexpression > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 11/14/2019 at 01:15

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Family is difficult. What you feel is probably fair. But what your sister feels is likely fair as well.

Sometimes cutting ties is the right move. My family is not as bad as yours, but bad enough. I cut off contact for years. Then things happened that pulled me back in .  I’d be a lot happier today if they hadn’t been able to involve me in that mess . I have no regrets about not speaking to them, I have no regrets about not seeing my father before he died, and I have nothing but regrets about cleaning up the mess everybody else made.

Chuckles > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 11/14/2019 at 01:17

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“No one is owed forgiveness.”

I am sad that I only have one star to give. This is so true, and something that a lot of people don't realize. If someone treats you like shit for decades and then says "that was wrong, I'm sorry," you have zero obligation to just act like everything is peachy now. 

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 11/14/2019 at 01:39

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She is being honest, admitting that she doesn’t know how to handle the loss of her childhood and the fantasy of how she wished it was. But I have to question how much pain was self-inflicted, unable to let go of that which never was and that which could never be . In that regard she seems to be setting herself up for failure until she can move on from that. Yes, that may require separation from the one that caused her such pain, I fully understand that. I’ve had to cut toxic people out of my life and I know that many (most) of those relationships will never return. I’m not saying that she must forgive our mother and that this must be worked out . I am saddened to see that it appears that much of her pain was brought upon herself, like a cut that gets picked at until it becomes a gaping wound.

I cannot directly compare her pain to mine and won’t even try, She has to grieve for the pain that was inflicted upon her and not to concern herself with how I was treated. I don’t even want her to know the things I’ve experienced for fear that it will adversely affect her recovery. Part of me was hoping that after I moved across the country we could somehow form a new, healthier relationship, but this was rejected and I had to move on, as much as that saddens me.

phenotyp > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 11/14/2019 at 01:49

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Man, it’s weird and difficult being a parent. My parents split, got back together, then split again for good when I was in college. My dad was abusive to my sister. Never to me, though. I was the weird kid he was just... disappointed by. Neither of my parents had good role models, and neither did I, as a result.

I was always the mediator in family disputes. We’ve gone through several cycles of estrangement in the last decade. The hard thing is that it’s never really about wrong or right, just about where people are in their lives. Sounds like you’re in a good place for you. Forgiveness is such a hard thing for everyone. If your sister’s writing everyone off, that’s on her; you can’t take her shit on. If your mom’s accepted and apologized for what she did when you were young, that’s all anyone can do, assuming she’s remedied her own shit. Just let her know that you’re there. Leading horses to water, and all that.

Being a parent has taught me more than anything in my life; no matter what happens, I will always be there for my daughter. I hope that I’m able to break the cycle in my family of absent (if not outright abusive) dads, and can show her all the good she can accomplish. Some people don’t figure that stuff out until their kids are grownups. Some never do. But when parents or siblings are shutting you out, it’s because of their own shit. All you can do is tell them that you’re here for them when they’re ready.

Fuck, I dunno. Life is hard. 

Honeybunchesofgoats > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 11/14/2019 at 01:51

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That’s fair. But do, please, remember, that different people deal with things differently. That doesn’t mean that you didn’t get it worse, but just that she isn’t ready to deal with it as magnanimously. Sometimes it’s just a control issue

NKato > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 11/14/2019 at 02:47

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I’ll tell you one thing I rarely tell others: I rarely speak to my sister because she’s allowed her life to spiral out of control starting in her young adult life, culminating in not having a job, an autistic son from a deadbeat dad , and bipolar personality disorder.

She is insufferable to be around, and often plays the victim card. When I first got my car, she asked me to drive her and her son around.

I responded by saying I’d need to reinstall the police partition before I’d seriously consider her request.

Nowadays, she’s on welfare and government housing assistance, and she hasn’t considered the possibility that her son would have been better off being adopted out to a family that is better equipped to handle his special needs.

Ultimately, everybody has their own bag of dicks to deal with.

Svend > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 11/14/2019 at 07:36

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I had the British version of your life.

Replace your mother with my father and a spouse that never died and stayed married until we were teenagers.

My mother didn’t know all of what was going on until one day, I really pissed off my mum and she slapped me. In place of crying or getting angry, I laughed and said ‘dad hits much harder than that’.

My dad is a racist, sexist, hell you ruddy name it guy. Who kept coming into work, asking if he could see my sister who wanted nothing to do with him and was in counseling for some years.

My sister is special needs and we were both diagnosed coeliac (now both in remission for going on 3 0 years) so we didn’t socialise much with other kids because other parents were wary what to give us to eat, and because of the nature of my dad, I never bonded with my sister.

So all in all I am in agreement with your sister, though I would be curious as to why now.

Don’t give up trying with your sister and she may be thinking about what your mum did to you and possibly blame herself for some or all of it, but also may be concerned that you get on with your mum now and may feel she may get dragged back into the family or made to feel she has to forgive her. Also if she has children, she maybe wanting to protect them. 

Discerning > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 11/14/2019 at 07:37

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My thoughts exactly. People are too tied up in fabricated obligations and they suffer as a result.

Sometimes you need to evaluate what is best for you and sometimes the answer is separation. 

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 11/14/2019 at 09:05

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I understand why your sister would do what she’s done but I can also see why it hurts for you. I think you will find this situation too will work itself out; I would  find the best way to give her space but let her know how you feel and that you want to be a part of her life.

MrSnrub > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 11/14/2019 at 10:57

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This is harsh to say, but after reading what you wrote I can understand if your sister doesn’t want to talk to you. It’s nice that you were able to forgive your mom, and certainly a good thing that she regrets what she did and is in a better place now. But if your childhood was as abusive as you imply, then your sister is under no obligation to show forgiveness. Abusers are not owed anything by their victims, even if they show repentence later.

What troubles me is that you spend a lot of time talking about how well-adjusted you’ve turned out despite your upbringing, and contrasting that with your sister. I’m sensing a lot of judgement here. Don’t doubt for a second that your sister hasn’t picked up on this - siblings can know you better than you know yourself, in my experience. You also seem at least as concerned with your mother’s feelings as your sister’s. Again, your sister has probably noticed this, and if she is trying to process and recover from an abusive history she does not need someone in her life who devalues her own pain in favor of the person who caused it.

I don’t mean to imply that you’re a bad person or anything like that, but I think your self-awareness is a bit lacking and your priorities are skewed. If you really want your sister to remain  in your life, you should consider offering contact free of judgement or any other strings attached - including contact with your mother.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > MrSnrub 11/14/2019 at 12:09

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I have tried offering that contact, free of connections to the past, as I know that our mother is a sticking point for her. Double dates, party invitations and other things that don’t involve family. Letters I’ve written have not included references to our mother, and I’ve been willing to leave out such references in the hope that it will help her recovery. I’ve tried relating to her on a one-to-one basis, detailing life in a new and different environment, hoping to learn more about her and her life at the same time . I am here for her if she needs me.

Our mother, regardless of the changes she has made, is not owed a thing by either of us. I may have forgiven her, but that does not mean that my sister is under any obligation to do the same, and I would be disappointed in her if she did forgive without working through the issues she has with her past. What I have found through my own recovery is that it is unhealthy to hold on to the past so tightly as to make it a defining characteristic of one’s self. Hopefully this separation frees her mind in such a way that she can begin to heal, and if it means that I am also cut out of her life that is something I will have to live with. For years I’ve seen patterns of destructive behavior in her, but no matter how much I love her I am not there to fix things for her and have to let her recover in the manner she sees fit. She is making a solid first step towards this and I applaud her for it, even if I can’t be there to tell her so.